Number of medals rewarded

@S7Dave

I know what the intent of the completely non transparent medal rewards is but the amounts are getting ridiculous. I was getting in the 40s then had a bad run of 4 games in a row lost. Then I won the next 3 games against Madsweetleaf from Synergyplus, Archangel from HOD, and then PaulaXX from Kickrocks. The first 2 are real players and the last I am not sure. I was awarded 5, 5, and 16 medals. Needless to say with rewards like this there is no reason for me to bother to spend any gems for tickets because the system has decided for some reason that I am not to be awarded enough medals to catch up to the rank I had before a bad run. I am not going to spend gems to get 20 medals total if I win 4 in a row. Something really needs to be fixed and you guys need some transparency in the reward system because right now it feels like the system is designed to cheat us. And if we can’t get transparency in the awards it will be unlikely that you can convince at least me differently.

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Exactly. I have 36 wins in this event and have lost a couple battles but not to many. Getting 5 medals per win and 1st place is 100 medals above me. Not gonna get up there in 40 minutes even if I spent $200 just on tickets.

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I think their intent with this was to reward success, but I agree it’s a little too much. It needs to be more consistent across the board I think. I mean this would suck ( and this is more of an example if anything, and quite honestly would be better than the current system) but if you win your first battle of the event it’s a set amount of medals for everyone. Once you lose a battle, the medal count resets to five for your next win (or whatever appropriate number) for everyone. With each consecutive win after that, the medal count goes up by maybe 20 medals. So your first win after a loss you get five. Second win 25, third win 45 and so on until you reach the max medal count. But if you lose again, you’re back down to five and it starts all over.

I’m not saying this is a solution, but it may actually work. No one understands the way it is now, and honestly it doesn’t make sense. Especially for players that aren’t really video game terminology savvy. We’ve asked a few times for transparency on this subject, a pinned post of the breakdown of how the system works but that has yet to happen.

Like I said, the idea above is just that, an idea, and I’d love to hear feedback on it as well. The point is, the way it is run currently is too extreme, and no one has taken the time to explain it to any of us. I get that the team wants to prevent grinding and I’m totally on board with that, but there’s got to be a better way to go about this.

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I don’t think 5 is ever an appropriate number of medals in the current system especially when one is spending gems. One post by a developer said you only get 5 against a bot but I got 5 last night against 2 completely authentic players. If the system is variable like this it devalues gems in an unpredictable manner. Gems already get devalued as you buy more tickets i.e. More purchases of 4 tickets progressively cost more gems. But if you can’t even tell if those tickets might be worth 100 medals each or 5 medals each there is a big problem. Also it seems the drop to 5 tends to happen toward the end of the event based at least in part on time more than on wins or losses this makes competitiveness impossible if trying to catch up. If you look at people with a huge number of medals they usually got it really early meaning they spent more tickets on the first day they didn’t catch up later. I think this is by design to prevent a player from coming in on the last day spending a lot of gems for tickets and catching up.

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@S7Dave
Here is another question which I thought of looking at the medal counts for the latest war and my medals awarded.

Is the determination that a player is stronger or weaker than you in the event based on their medals? Cause if so that is a terrible way to do it. One of my 5 medal victories was against a player with a few hundred less medals than I had but just as strong a deck and just as strong a player. There are a lot of reasons other than skill for someone to have a lower medal count including lack of time to play, bad luck, not having gems to spend, etc etc. if it, as I suspect, is based on medal count, that is a huge part of the problem.

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Totally true. Same problem last event. Beating players above my level and getting 5 medals.

Pay diamonds to get 20 medals for 4 wins? It doesn’t make sense at all.

Either the medal system or the matching system is broken.

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Our intent is not for the system to be opaque, it works the same as the MMR/Medal system in ranked play:

  • Each player has two values: MMR (“Matchmaking Rating” which similar to Elo, you can read about it here) and Medals.
  • MMR is a value that shows you how strong you are, which due to the nature of the game is a combination of unit levels and skill. It goes up/down when you win/lose and the amount is based on the difference between your MMR and your opponent’s MMR.
  • When the event starts your MMR is seeded to a level appropriate for you so that matchups are at least reasonable (level 10 player won’t face a level 75 player in the first matches), if you remember a few months ago we had this problem in the first few event matches before the MMR corrected.
  • In events Medals can never go down, and you start at 1000 when you enter.
  • The amount of Medals you gain factor in the difference between your MMR and your Medals. For example:
    -If your Medal count is 1500 but your MMR is 4000 and you win against an evenly matched opponent, you’d be getting the maximum Medal reward of 300.
    -If your Medals have caught up to your MMR and you’re winning against an evenly matched opponent you’d see MMR/Medal gains around 75 which is the “normal” amount
    -If your MMR is lower than your Medals the gains get smaller as they get further apart, eventually down to the minimum amount (5).

I wish we could make the system more transparent by showing the MMR score or the win/loss count for each player in the event, but unfortunately we haven’t found the bandwidth to get that change into an update yet.

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I think you have an error in the calculations somewhere or are over or u dearest I sting something because close to the end of the event many fights end up with 5 medals. I’ve had 5 medal fights that were barely wins because the player was skilled or the players cards were as good or better than mine.

For both of your cases, your medals grew to roughly the maximum possible above your MMR. Neither of you played any bots in the event (!) and you were earning 5 medals for some wins because both your MMR and your opponent’s MMR were far below your medals.

I know this doesn’t feel great, but there are good reasons for this. This rubberbanding of medals to your MMR (i.e., your ability to beat other players) is what ensures skilled players who play a moderate amount end up with more medals than less skilled players who buy a lots and lots of tickets. This ensures the game is more about playing well instead of playing lots.

It is true that in some cases some extremely skilled players (usually less than a handful in any given event) will get bots after the maximum queue time of 5 minutes is reached. This wasn’t the case for either of you however. For those few players who are hitting the max queue time but do not want to play a bot (i.e., they’re willing to queue for even longer and wait for a strong opponent to come online) then I suggest canceling queuing after about 4-4.5 minutes and re-queuing to avoid being assigned a bot match (which are super easy for players of that skill level, but not very rewarding).

When you’re only getting 5 or similarly few medals after sub-5 minute queue times (as was the case here) then that’s a hint, as S7Swede explained, that your win-loss record has established that you are not quite as skilled as the players above you and will not allow your medals to go much higher unless you demonstrate more skill (e.g., go on a win streak that significantly alters you win-loss record in the current event and MMR).

I’m too aware of this. And after three weeks, I’m finally getting someone from the company to review my medal count for the “boom” event. I was given 5 - 40 medals for all wins across the board the entire event. Even my first match and first win was 37 medals! It’s ridiculous that I even invested more into that event.

Your methodology is flawed because it’s not about skill for a large part of it it’s about the random cards you choose and what our levels of those cards happen to be and the random draw of your deck. I’ve beaten some top players, literally top ranks in Multiplayer and top rank in the event, and then have a losing streak with bad luck on draws. For example in the last event right before the system decided I would only get 5 medals I had a bad run of 4 losses in a row but right before that Imwon 4 out of 5. Your system has almost nothing to do with skill. If you gave everyone the same cards you could possibly argue that but the cards aren’t the same and the matchups are not well balanced.

On top of this once the system changes you to 5 medals you almost might as well not play because you cannot make progress and you can’t go on a significant enough win streak to change it. Why should I spend gems which cost real money to have your system ruin my game. It’s time to admit this system is just another way for rich to get richer because if you have all or most of the units at 17 you are much more likely to win than to lose no matter how good your opponent is. This drop to 5 medals is insulting and needs to go away. It’s not about skill it’s about streaks and those aren’t the same thing. For that matter if it were even somewhat consistent it might make sense but those of us playing see no transparency and no consistency in the system. This is literally the only PvP game I’ve played where the reward for wins and losses is just a mystery to me. The rest look at relative team power and give awards based on that. Beat a team lesser ranked then you are get a small award, beat a team higher ranked then you are get a big award. Play more, earn more. If you don’t want it to be about number of games played but about “skill” then why allow ticket purchases at all? Why not just have a set number of games everyone can play?

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I’ve started a thread on event discussion for this event. I’ve already started to post screen shots. Feel free to check it out.

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Winning based on skill level? Doesn’t mean anything? I went against high lv players and get 5 medals… they are obviously more skilled and have higher units yet I get 5? When I know that the ones that have beaten me in event have gotten more from beating me(a lower level than them) I do not believe your system is right and needs a change especially since y’all were so busy adding a new feature that could have bugs instead of fixing the problem we all are dealing with! Just fix the problems at hand then add more. Please do t just make this game a money grabber because in the long run a more enjoyable game is gonna get the money. Not a crap game that has so many bugs and not playable. I’m really hoping that the game goes to the first one but I believe it’s going towards the second one… I really hope it doesn’t and I believe that it can be turned around. @S7Dave @S7Swede @S7campusLifer @S7NotABot

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I’m not saying five medals should be the set number. I was just throwing an idea out there

Even if you’re beating players with higher level cards, it doesn’t mean your skill rating should endlessly go up – for that to happen, you would need to beat all of your opponents much more often than you lose. For all players (except the very best 2-3 players in the game, perhaps) this can only go on for so long until the player finds their (current!) sweet spot and they plateau.

I’m not sure if that makes sense, but basically everyone has some “skill” level. Generally, this goes up a bit as players play the event and tweaks their decks and strategies. Players fall into a few broad buckets: some can beat players with better (or much better) cards, some players find it tough against those of equal level, and some struggle against those with lower level cards. Every player is given (roughly) increasingly harder opponents until their win-loss ratio becomes less strong (and again, this happens to every player eventually). The goal is for players to win about half their matches (it has to be this way, since every match has a winner and a loser!) … so we show harder opponents until this is roughly the case. When a player reaches this win rate (roughly), they’ll also have reached roughly their skill rating (and shortly thereafter, medal) plateau.

Regardless, every player will be able to raise the skill rating to whatever level actually reflects their current skill (indirectly impacted by the cards you have, of course) … and once you hit that plateau (regardless of which bucket you fall in) your medals will also plateau.

Of course, if you find a new strategy and start winning more often than not again, then you’ll resume climbing and reach a new, higher plateau.

But everyone has a plateau, and will eventually reach it. If this wasn’t the case, then winning the event would be about who plays the most matches, not who has the greatest skill (a combination of strategy and, of course, card levels).

Right. I think the hardest part isn’t so much the medals you get. Its the fact that you’re using a ticket and you have a chance to draw a 5 medal opponent or a 200 medal opponent. Granted, as the event goes on this becomes less likely but you still can’t really choose what tier you’re after so you could just be unlucky and you use all your tickets and don’t progress at all. And there isn’t much you could have actually done differently.

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Fair point. There are two cases which lead to you getting 5 medals:

  1. To avoid 5 medal bots, you need to avoid queuing for longer than 4.5 minutes or so (at 5 minutes, you’ll get a 5-medal bot). Not ideal, but it’s a handy trick to know.
  2. On the other hand, if you’re getting 5 medals after waiting less than 5 minutes, then you’re playing a real person and you’re getting few medals because our estimate of your skill rating has plateaued (and thus your medals have also been plateaued) … the only way to get more medals in this case is to demonstrate that your skill is higher than currently estimated (by significantly raising your win-loss ratio; though to be honest, this probably isn’t likely to happen unless you’ve suddenly found a much better strategy or upgraded a lot of cards).

I think I was just choosing the extremes but there’s a lot of space in between. Given the cost of tickets each match becomes exponentially more important so when the algorithm and result is something so out of your hands, it’s hard for people to have a stable outcome

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Listen you guys. They are here to come up with an excuse each week so we hang on just a bit longer. They also promised me with compensation today for how badly I was screwed in the boom event. I heard from no one. I am deeply hurt and betrayed by our brother @S7Dave. I had put so much into this game. I invested nearly $4,500.00 into this game (embarrassing I know) and thought it might go somewhere and that my money was not just wasted, but something that I could build off of for the future to come.

I’ve spent a lot less this last week. Normally I would buy out the shop until I couldn’t buy anymore. And this was just for coins and season tokens! Because, we all know that I have too many copies of cards which are useless now and “gold” which is also useless. And the very last thing that I would spend money on is now broken as well. Events and buying tickets are pointless seeing as how that I can not determine the outcome of my future with gems as advertised. Medals are just a cover up for “ya don’t know whatcha really gonna get. So you better spend until you can’t spend no more!”

Oh well. Maybe I can go back to hearthstone. I was playing it again last night. It was pretty fun. Plus I get gold in a reasonable time and can and do get to play for free, but I also spend money to support Blizzard and buy some packs here and there. Maybe if WB adopted business strategies and models after Blizzard, (which happens to be one of the most successful franchises in the gaming industry) they could stay active and get paid for the next ten to twenty years rather than 10- 20 months.

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I’m sorry, but you can’t pull this “you have a chance to pull a 5-200 medal win” on your very first win and first game.

You, me and the community all know that this isn’t right. And you let it happen to me again this event as well as many events before me. You told me I would be compensated for the boom event today after dragging out my compensation for two weeks, I now feel like a once hopeful fool to a hopeless idiot.

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