Event medal algorithm

@S7campusLifer I agree, that maximizing the effectiveness of your deck is ideal. But my point is, when you get behind, how are you supposed to catch up? That has nothing to do with deck power. I have no problem winning, that isn’t the issue. The issue is you may be holding the ideal spot, step away for a few minutes, then drop multiple ranks. And when that happens, it is absolutely impossible to be competitive anymore. It has nothing to do with my wins, it’s the medal payout.

Make the amount of medals won the same across the board. Simple. Problem solved.

For me it’s not misunderstanding how the system works for events. I get it. I know how it works, and it’s not right. That is the point I’m trying to get across. The events are still incredibly unfair.

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No, you really just don’t know how to win… :neutral_face: holding in laughter

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@PHNEWALLETKEYS:

What I’m saying is that in the current system, if you fall behind the action you should take is:

  • Assume you’re “stuck in diamond”. Doing more battles isn’t helping – you need to change something about your deck.
  • Stop refreshing tickets — you’re wasting them.
  • Figure out what deck the people winning the leaderboard are using.
  • Change your deck so that it’s more similar to the people who are winning by swapping cards in and out, and then upgrade those cards so they’re higher level than everyone else on the leaderboard.
  • Learn to play very effectively with that deck – make sure you understand the strategy & tactics that make this deck effective. Is it a rush deck where you should avoid building powerplants & tech, or a control deck where you should hold back the enemy while you invest in your economy and flood your power in the late game?
  • Now that you’ve switched your deck and play of that deck, start using tickets again. You should start seeing bigger medal gains again.

The intention of the current system is “the player with the best deck and best ability to play that deck will win the leaderboard.”

It is very possible the system should be changed, but even if we started today it would not happen for least a few months. I suggest you use the steps I’m describing if you want to be effective in the current system. Definitely do not keep wasting your time and tickets doing more battles without switching up your deck and strategy – that will not work with the current system.

Ok. I know you’re just trying to help, and I appreciate that. I also know that none of this is your fault.

Don’t get me wrong here, I’ve tried everything you have suggested. Successful deck building isn’t a problem, nor is strategy and winning with whatever deck I’ve built. I have tried going back and completely erasing my deck ( despite winning with it ), then hopping back on the event to continue winning. If you look at my win to loss ratio you’ll see that I have success with my decks. However, even after trying everything under the sun to get more medals, nothing works past a certain point. That’s what I’m trying to say. And because of this, there really isn’t a way to catch up. It’s a viscous cycle. If I have any hope of even just holding onto my current position, I have to buy tickets.

I was literally told in email from one of the team members that once the system thinks you’re where you should be, you stop progressing. That is what my biggest issue is with all this. Why does the system get to decide if I continue to progress or not? If my current deck is successful, why should I be forced to change it?

In your suggestions, you mentioned leveling up my cards. Well that was an option before, but now because the amount of coins from chests has been nerfed, I can’t really do that now. Even though I spent money to get my 100% coin booster.

Something I really hope all of you understand is from the player perspective, the greediness seems to be getting a little out of control. A few examples:

  1. Being told to upgrade cards to progress in event, which will cost money.
  2. Coin amounts have been nerfed, so in order to upgrade anything you have to spend money.
  3. The value of event packs is still ridiculously low.
  4. The cost to refresh event tickets is still ridiculously high.
  5. The cost to refresh multiplayer chests is still ridiculously high.

You can see how it looks really bad on the team. Especially what you’re telling me about events. I have to upgrade my cards? How? With what coins?

As I’ve said before, I’m done playing events until it’s fixed. If that takes two months like you said, so be it. I just get pissed off every time I play events now which is the complete opposite of how
I want a game to make me feel. I’m also keeping my money to myself, and if you look at my spending record you’ll see just how much I’ve given you guys. And the thanks I get for that? A game that just wants more of my money and a team that implements shady practices to entice us out of even more money.

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Ok so the coin thing is kind of fixed, if you want to call it that, but is there still no response to this?

Hi @PHNEWALLETKEYS

If someone feels way above you on the event leaderboard, my guess is that they have a deck with higher level cards than you. For them to have done that, I would guess they’ve earned this deck through a combination of time / effort / skill / planning / money to get there. I suggest hoarding coins which you can dump into the event deck if you want to catch up with them. That’s probably the action they are taking to get further ahead on the event leaderboard — combined with rearranging their deck and playing with it very effectively.

I think I’ve answered this question to the extent that I know how to. I’m not sure what else I can say at this point. This is something we can possibly consider changing, but it’s not something which will happen anytime soon. Even if I could somehow unilaterally decide to change this right now this minute, it would take weeks to months of development time to make it happen.

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Hey @PHNEWALLETKEYS, The way I would probably think about it is that event ranking is very very similar to ranking in regular PvP. In regular PvP, you will generally win a lot more games than you lose at first, until you start stalling out - e.g., if you start the reset at Gold 2, and then are able to fight your way up to Diamond 2, and then very slowly gain to Diamond 3 over the next couple weeks, but are unable to progress further until you gain skill or collection power. You could play 100 more games at Diamond 3, but if your true skill/strength at that time is Diamond 3, you are unable to progress further without learning new strategies or switching decks or upgrading your units because you win 50% of your games.

Event medals works very similarly, except you don’t lose medals/ranking when you lose, because we want to avoid the very un-fun pattern of being afraid to lose your spot on the event leaderboard and not playing at all once you hit a certain score. You can easily gain medals up to a certain point as you win and increase your event elo (matchmaking rating, separate from medals). At a certain point your elo stabilizes, depending on your skill/power in that particular event, based on your pattern of winning or losing your games (win and elo goes up, lose and it goes down; if you have an equal elo with another player, you will 50% of your games vs. that player). You can keep gaining medals once your elo stabilizes, but gains will slow down if your elo stops increasing.

For example, if you win your first few games and get to a 3500 elo, then start winning every other game your elo will stabilize around 3500 (e.g., win one, elo up to 3575, lose one, elo down to 3500, etc.); your medals will be able to go up to 3500 very quickly, but then once past 3500, the medal gains will start to slow down, until you get say 500 ahead of your elo, at 4000 medals, and your medals gains will be the minimum at that point. If you are able to find a better deck/new strategy/upgrade your deck, and get to a higher elo of 3600, you would then be able to start gaining more medals again until you reach 4100. If you find someone is able to gain medals faster than you after a certain point, it is highly likely they have a higher elo; that is, if you were to play that player directly, they would likely win more than 50% of those games.

Sorry for the long text, but hopefully that helps clarify a bit what is happening?

Cheers,
S7Dragon

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This makes a lot of sense and sounds like a fair system. I think part of the complaints stems in part from folks not understanding the algorithm, and in part from folks inaccurately assessing their own skill level (since elo isn’t obvious, a win against a lower player may feel the same as a win against a higher one).

I think this post should help with the former, but there isn’t much to be done for the latter but put a banner across victory screens reading, like, “you won but it was a cakewalk” or “we didn’t think you could do it, but you really pulled that one off.” :wink:

One thing to consider, though, is really bad luck. I can’t say how many times I have had a streak of battles where my first 5-7 cards are 100% of my tech and support from the deck. I’ll have a barrier (or two!) down before I can even play my third card!

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That sounds to me like you’ve got too many of those types of cards in your deck and possibly not enough tier 1 units in deck to ensure a start with units in hand?

For eg. Do you place 3 copies of a tactic card and 3 copies of higher tech cards in deck?
If so change that down to maximum of 2 copies.

No what I mean is that all (or nearly so) of my support or tech cards will come first. 3 giga shields and an eternal warrior on first draw, say. It’s mostly bad luck lol

@S7campusLifer, @S7Dragon thank you both for taking the time to explain this better. I think my frustration was coming from not understanding exactly how the events are working now. But I think I may have it figured out, thanks to your explanations.

Again, no disrespect to anyone over there, I know you guys are working hard to perfect this game.

I would ask a follow up question for clarification: when the event starts, I’m getting 300 or so medals for wins against people whose cards are much lower than mine. Later on, even if I beat someone more highly ranked than me, I’ll get maybe 12. I’m curious about the decay on those rewards, if that specific algorithm is shareable.

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I think what we need is a pinned post on the forum explaining in detail the medal system. I mean it still kind of feels misleading tbh

You’re opponent is irrelevant i’ve discovered, each fight is based on where your ELO currently is at, they just give you an opponent based on current elo situation and medals rewarded is already predetermined. Eg for that current fight (no matter the opponent) a win would gain 100 medals.

Reason why I believe this is, my medals gained were consistent until I lost, then it dropped a little. Each time I beat the ranked 1 player, it gave me exact same, but then later on down after I had lost a few matches, beating that same player (even though was stil the ranked 1 player) the medals gained were the lowered amount that i’ve Been getting since dropping a few matches.

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Given the random card draws and how impactful that can be to your win/loss, that seems like an unfair method, to me. It certainly isn’t rewarding skill, since beating a rank 1 player now or later should presumably reflect more skill on average than beating some scrub from the bottom of the list.

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The system does not see it that way about beating rank 1 player from your group. From my understanding about the points. I could be VERY WRONG. Here are some of my observations of how points are gained which Life I think got it correctly about ELO rank.

Example of my THEORY ONLY. Say there are 4 categories or groupings for ranking A,B,C,D (should be more than 4 and more complex but I simplified it) for each event and everyone start at D rank and get maybe 200-300 points per match winning. After a while of winning at rank D your points per match win will reduce in that same category but you don’t notice it probably you have gone up to rank C which again gives up maybe slightly lesser points but still huge amount in the region of 150-250 points. Again when you win further you will move on to rank B and rank A.

That is why sometimes you find that playing more matches will not give you more points because you have reached the ceiling at that particular rank for example first 5 matches in rank D will give you in the region of 200-300 points per win then next 5 matches maybe the points will drop to 100-150 per win and after 10 matches maybe 50 points only. So if you notice last day of the event normally you only gain sometimes 5-10 points and for some maybe 15-20 points because they are stuck at different rank. There is no way the system will track the match against you and no 1 player.

The system can only track which ELO rank you are playing at. That is why some people asked why they have more winnings but get lesser points than those who has less winning because of the diminishing return in points when you keep on playing at the same particular rank. So if you notice the last day of playing you always get low points because you have reach the full potential in your rank and you won’t be gaining more points from winning at a certain rank. So in an extreme case if you win 50 matches in rank D and another person win only 10 matches in rank A he might possibly get more points than you. Also for every new event everyone always start at ELO rank D and you start to climb rank with each winning depending on your skills and level of your units you have available in your deck.

It is a fair system but maybe transparency is not there. If they could indicate which tier or percentile of players winning matches in each event it would help a lot for people to understand how the system work. Remember you are not only competing with people in your same grouping. You compete with everyone in the game. The grouping is for the reward ONLY. Now you maybe ask why not make the competition among the same grouping only but it is impossible because the waiting time will be too long to find a match among 100 or 200 people in that particular group.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for reading.

That makes sense, and it’s the way I understood it to work. I guess to put a finer point on my question, why would beating people consistently, even in the late hours of an event, not rank your elo up?

I truly believe it does but at a very fine margin. Everything I say here is based on my experience and observation. When the event first started I spend load of diamonds to refresh for tickets. End of 3 days event I only marginally manage to get 8-15 points per win. Now I refresh less and I find that I am still getting around 40-50 points per win during the last few hours of the game. Let’s look into my observation on points distribution.

Based on 5 match winning points for 3 simplified scenarios.
Win(W)= 10 points, no penalty for next winning
Lose(L)= 1 points, -3 pts for next win, if 2 loses in a row need 2 more wins to get back original 10pts

WWWWW = 50 points
WLWLWWW = 46 points
WLLWWWW = 43 points - first win after 2 losses 4 points, second win 7 points based on each losses losing 3 points. (Points rank penalty for losses in ELO might be different from what is shown)

I am assuming each rank A,B,C,D has it own range to progress to the next rank maybe each win for ELO rank D only needed 500 ELO points to progress to rank C Rank and rank C needed 1000 ELO points, Rank B maybe 1500 ELO points. This is based on my 1v1 non event match ranking, I find that at challenger to Champion stage I get 12-16 medals per win and lost 18-24 per lost. If you lose 2 games you will need 3 games of winning to recover the lost medals. At gold or diamond rank you get more points and easier to rank up. Which gold, diamond, challenger rank represent the rank A,B,C,D in the event itself.

I think the event scenario here is also the same but you cannot see the ELO points and instead only based it on winning points. Both of ELO and winning points are actually different depending on losing penalty and winning streak. Of course if you are match with someone who has high winning streak it will also effect the points you gain in the event which again is another variable here.

So at the end of the event you might be stuck at the same rank for a long time before you are able to jump to next level compared to someone who has more winning streak which I have illustrated above. Like I said before if you are stuck at the same rank your winning points won’t be high unless you progress to the next ELO rank.

Hope I am not confusing you.