A few things I’d like to bring up

With the season coming to a close, I am concerned about the coin payout. Currently, with the coin boost maxed, I still don’t get the amount of coins I was receiving before the nerf. Very soon, the coin booster is going to go away, and we will be stuck with getting 135 coins or so per chest, even as Champion (which is even more asinine if you think about it). I’m wondering what the plan is, if any, to fix this coin problem that so many of us have expressed our frustration on. When you have a lot of cards that are level 16, you need 100k+ coins to upgrade to max level. Without the coin booster ( and even with it) it’s near impossible to get enough coins at a realistic pace to upgrade. Before the nerf, we all made it pretty clear that the coins were already an issue, and despite that, you guys went ahead and cut the payouts.

So basically, I would like to know what we are supposed to do after the season is over to get our coins. I don’t think many of us really feel like spending money on this game, so that’s not an option.

Second, I just noticed that 6 wins in the gauntlet only pays out 100 diamonds, instead of the former 200. Why? This is exactly the kind of hidden update that pisses us all off. It’s like you think we won’t notice.

Third, whenever the option to purchase coins with alliance tokens was available, it was always 4000. Now, more often than not, it’s 2000. Yet another coin nerf, even though we have said many times we don’t have enough coins.

I know you guys are busy with the new season coming up, so when you get a chance can you please respond? I love this game, I play it every day, but quite honestly these changes are insulting. It’s an obvious push to get us to spend more money, when in reality you should be rewarding your dedicated players.

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Most good games are eventually killed by greed. When you look at the games that are still thriving after years here is what they have in common.

  1. Microtransactions much more than macro purchases
  2. Frequent updates to content not to individual units, heroes, cards, etc
  3. Devs who are in frequent direct contact with the players and actually listen rather than dictate.
  4. Very feasible to be competitive as a free to play player
  5. Not overwhelming to a player just starting out or even part way through becoming a high level player.

Now let’s look at this game…

  1. Macrotransactions and the value of those transactions were cut because the spreadsheet told them to cut it.
  2. No recent major updates except the season, PvE has been dead since I joined, the season essentially adds new cards not new story or new plot to the game.
  3. Semi responsive developers who ignore key issues and do not in general listen when players repeatedly try to warn them about a bad decision.
  4. You can no longer get to the top as an FTP player. If you can I can’t imaging when you sleep.
  5. The barrier for a starting player is huge and getting bigger. Even at mid-level range it’s terrible, my dinky gold 4 rogue with the highest cards being a level 14 pixie got teamed with another dinky rogue today and were placed against a pair of diamond 4ish opponents with level 17 cards.

Do you see why we are concerned?

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Such a shame but I totally agree with your assessment guys. And that’s why I have stopped spending since 3 months.

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I will be surprised if we get a real answer to this post and the comments. I really hope I’m proven wrong, but so far it doesn’t look good.

This post has been up for 9 hours with no response. I’m impatient because this is all stuff that’s been brought up and not addressed before. If you don’t have an answer, at least acknowledge that you’ve seen the post and you’ll get back to us. Please don’t use the zen desk excuse either. Thanks.

Hope they wouldn’t ignore your post as they ignored mine about the overboosted players

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Doop I kind of expect it at this point tbh. I tend to bring up topics they don’t want to talk about. Same with your post about the boosted players (which also is a thorn in my side). I’ve been holding off posting a review in the store, but it’s happening soon lol. Unfortunately I don’t think it’ll be a good one.

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@DOOP2 look! They still haven’t responded :joy:

Hi @DOOP2. i’ve written many long responses on this toioc over here: https://forums.wildbeyondgame.com/t/why-in-the-event-do-i-keep-playing-people-that

Ok @S7campusLifer that was a deliberate attempt on your part to ignore my entire post. You do know that we’re all fed up with all this, right? After spending thousands on your game, you can’t even interact with us the way we prefer?

Hi.

I don’t mean any disrespect. We have many fires to put out right now and every minute I spend composing responses to hard hittin’ questions on this forum is time I haven’t spent fixing problem in our game.

I’m just trying to respond to things I know the answer to or have a quick status update. I’m sorry if that appears disrespectful to you.

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we appreciate that you take the time to respond. You guys are working on a huge number of bugs that just got introduced into the game, we get that.

We are trying to tell you there are bigger problems. The bots are making the game not fun, when a game isn’t fun people stop playing and don’t want to support it. Since you can’t get ahead of bots by upgrading this isn’t even something we could say was done to make us spend money, it’s just a bad idea AT THE LEVEL YOU HAVE THE BOTS SCALED TO. Notice we didn’t say it’s a bad idea just that it’s overscaled.

We are trying to tell you the way you have coins set no one is having fun and everyone feels too restricted. Again this makes people frustrated and not want to play your game.

We are trying to tell you that the change to the value of packages was a stupidly bad idea on many many levels which makes most players not want to buy them any longer and makes it harder for newer players to catch up,to older players and less likely to stay in the game.

All of these things we tell you because we love this game, we enjoy playing it, and we have invested our time and money into it. We want it to succeed and get better, we want you all to succeed. But the problem is you never seem to listen to us on these major issues. You fix bugs, you reimburse losses to small issues but you don’t acknowledge that the problems we point out are problems and you don’t fix them.

Here is a simple question. What would have happened if when all your playing players said the change to the value of packages was terrible you said…“we’re sorry we didn’t see how it was changing the value of what you were investing in our game so much. We will change it back and accept it as the norm despite what our spread sheet said.” Well your players would have been happier as they were listened to and a perceived wrong to the players was fixed they would have respected you for fixing the problem. We would have kept spending money the way we did instead of stopping buying event packages. All in all everything would have been better. Instead you decided a completely arbitrary calculation for the real money cost of a digital product with zero cost for you to produce was more important than keeping your players happy. That’s just bad business.

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The change to Value Packs was our mistake, and something that we’ve acknowledged already in the relevant thread.

If there was “zero cost” to produce digital products, we’d have a lot of engineers, artists, designers, etc. unemployed. Take Netflix for example: their digital products––movies, shows, etc.––are analogous to the features and systems built into our game. Both take real human work to produce, and that work is the cost that is charged. Perhaps part of the misunderstanding here is that the amount of work it takes to punch in a dollar amount to something in-game is being misconstrued with the the actual work of designing, coding, testing, delivering, and maintaining the game.

Just like how there’s a cost of creating and maintaining a game, it’s not lost on us that there is a real cost to having unhappy players. If no one plays our game, then there is no money to be made, which means no way of funding the creation of more game content. This is the dilemma: there is a measurable amount of content that we can produce in a given amount of time, and a real-world cost associated with that that must be met. Our long-term goal is to always have new enjoyable content for players, and to do that the appropriate costs must be met.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, first of all. I know you guys take a beating around here, from me included, so I want to make sure you know that engagement is appreciated.

I’d point out that since the post you linked, there have been several more “silent mistakes” made regarding the value of real-money purchases. To wit: the posted drop rates of season tokens in the Time Warp chests suggested a uniform chance to win up to 3k tokens, but the actual drop rate was far lower than that; silently, there was a cap on the number of value packs that could be purchased, after which the inattentive buyer would get about half the drops for the same price; further, surprise nerfs to coin drop rates left many of us with dozens of upgrades waiting — with purchased cards — that we have no practical way of using within a reasonable time frame. If I had know it would take weeks or months of grinding chests to obtain enough coins for an upgrade, rest assured I would not have purchased chests to fill out my card counts.

I hope you read my posts in the “top alliances” thread (edit: actually, it was this thread: What do I do with all these extra cards? Need coins not gold... (and a response)) which contained what I felt were thoughtful suggestions for achieving monetization without sacrificing playability, or defrauding further those of us who paid hundreds of dollars to (granted) become competitive. I offered these suggestions freely and I think they would work (I’m well acquainted with your business model) but in the meantime I feel it’s appropriate to say I’ve requested nearly $1000 in refunds from Apple for money I’ve spent on this game.

Finally, I think I can speak for most of us when I say we’re well aware that producing content for such a promising game is neither free nor cheap. (Trust me, consuming said content is hardly cheap, either.) I think what he meant is that the marginal cost for these digital assets is zero; once you’ve created them, an additional instance of them doesn’t incur a measurable additional cost. What we’re saying, I think, is that your revenue targets can’t be made on the backs of those of us who’ve spent hundreds (which is hundreds more than the average phone game player), particularly when it’s done silently, or after the purchases are made, or with gross disregard for the playability of the game we’ve paid to play. Mistakes happen, we know that, it all of these mistakes have been compounded with each update, come at significant individual cost to us, and come with a marked lack of contrition.

I’m sympathetic, I really am, and I think your game is among the most promising out there. But your revenue targets have to be enumerated at a practical “$ spent per player” average, not a “these 50 people buy a lot, so let’s get them to pay our studio’s operating budget by hook or crook.”

Thanks again for responding.

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First thank you for finally replying in these threads. Second as Holysmokes said, I am not implying there is no work cost to producing a digital product but once produced the cost to sell another one is essentially zero. Yes you pay a percentage to Apple but no you don’t have a further production cost the way a car or toaster or load of bricks would. That said when you charge one cost and then suddenly drop what the same amount gives us you have cut our value period.

Last you acknowledged a mistake in not announcing the change in what you linked not that the cost change was a mistake and you haven’t reversed the change so no you have not acknowledged the mistake we are all pointing out, not that you didn’t tell us but that you made the change at all.

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The load of bricks might not fit the example, but I think the car does. A car needs repairs and maintenance over time. Similarly, our game needs to pay for server costs, the wages of people on the development team, and things like marketing, R&D, etc. Also, unlike bricks, not every piece of content is as simple as making a copy and sending it out (new units are an example). For every $1 you graciously send our way, 30¢ goes to Apple, and the remainder gets divided into the costs of doing business, with the leftover as profit. I just don’t want anyone to get the wrong idea that that 70¢ is all pocketed.

Edit: I want to add that I don’t have enough information to speak confidently about drop rates and Value Pack purchase limits. I can only say that these practices are not uncommon in the mobile game space, but improvements to how they’re represented in our game is something I’ve pushed for in reaction to the feedback given here.

Yes there is a cost to running your game. We know that, it’s why we support the game. But again digital items have no direct production cost once created and in place. In fact you guys raised the cost when you spent time recoding existing packages to reduce the value and then again to rearrange the value instead of just leaving it alone and taking the money we were happy to give you. People, didn’t complain about the package costs when they were at the original value. I haven’t bought one since. In addition the value to the players of those packages actually goes down further the higher level we are and the more developed our decks because we don’t need the cards and there is nothing we can do with them that is actually worth it (yes we can donate common and rare but that’s essentially nothing). If this were a matter of the company needs more money it shouldn’t cut the value it should add new purchases like skins which you have already designed but we can’t get, like,my suggestion of adding season 1 cards as a guaranteed inclusion at a reasonable amount to purchased season 2 chests. You do that and people will definitely buy them. Reducing value so people need to buy more packages to get the same amount they previously did just leaves a bad taste in our mouths.

P.S. it is nice to finally have a discussion about this instead of being completely ignored. Hopefully next we will actually see a tangible response to the major complaints of low coin amounts and lowered value of packages.

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